Sam Fields: Iran’s Beef With USA Understandable






It is impossible to read a story about Iran without language describing it as “the world’s number one terrorist state”.

But, just as “one man’s sheep is another man’s prom date”; one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter.

In the hundreds, if not thousands of articles on Iran have you ever read one devoted to Iran’s grievances with the United States?

If not, consider this your first.  Think of this as an application of Sun Tzu’s observation that “if you understand your enemy and you understand yourself you can win a hundred battles”.


  • In 1858 we opened relations with Iran.  Until 1952 it was a fairly benign relationship.
  • Beginning of the Cold War, our Red Scare paranoia interpreted all nationalist movements as part of the International Communist Conspiracy.
  • In 1952 Mohammad Mosaddegh was elected Prime Minister on a platform of reform and renegotiating the one-sided oil contract with British Petroleum.  That contract, going back to 1905, called for BP to get 85% of the revenue without allowing Iran to even look at the books! When BP refused to renegotiate the deal, he nationalized the oil company.  The Anglo-American reaction was to organize a boycott.  When that didn’t work President Eisenhower had the CIA, led by Kermit Roosevelt Jr., (TR’s grandson) overthrow the government in reinstall the Shah Reza Pahlavi.
  • After taking back the throne, the Shah created his own version of the Gestapo to torture and murder thousands of his opponents.  Known as the SAVAK, it was unequivocally the product of the CIA and U.S. Army tutelage.
  • The Iran-Iraq War was a most shameful, tragic and vile action by the United States. Thinking that Iran was in disarray from the overthrow of the Shah, our good friend Saddam Hussein attacked Iran without reason or warning.  The Reagan Administration had no problem picking sides. With point men Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney, we supplied Iraq with intelligence and arms.  Most disgraceful was the sale of chemicals that everyone knew would be used for chemical warfare against the Iranians.  It was also used against the Kurds.   By the time the war ended, over 150,000  Iranians were killed.
  • Flight 655.  In July 1988 we shot down an Iranian airliner with 290 aboard. OOPS! We then falsely blamed Iran for bringing down Pan Am 103 in December 1988.
  • The Mujahedin-E Khalq aka The MEK.  It’s an anti-government organization. Notwithstanding they are on The State Department terrorist list, U.S. and Israel’s intelligence agencies have assisted a them in terrorist acts including assassination and mass murder of Iranians.
  • The leading force in fighting ISIS is Iran.



And what have they done to us?

I’m sure my critics will be happy to list those.  However, I am certain the list will be shorter than the one with harms against us by our “good friends” the Saudis.


The Saudis Are Not Friends


Saudi Arabia personifies the expression: “With friends like these you don’t need enemies.”

Remember that the 9/11 terrorists came from Saudi Arabia and not Iran.

The House of Saud has but two rules:

  • Rule 1–Do whatever it takes to keep the House of Saud in power.
  • Rule 2–See rule 1.

This includes funding—think buying off—the radical mosques and Wahabi schools that educated and inflamed the 9/11 hijackers and just about every other Sunni crazy.


The Chicken Little Factor


Is Iran a nuclear based existential threat to its neighbors including Israel?

Since the early 1990’s Israel Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his allies have been describing Iran as anywhere from 12 to 36 months away from nuclear weapons.

Exactly how many times do they have to be wrong?

But even if Iran was on that road, it’s not a super highway.

Fact: Israel possesses nuclear bombs and the ability to deliver them anywhere in the Middle East.

If Iran were to go down that path they would have to test the first bomb to make sure the bomb and detonator worked.  There is no way they would be able to keep that a secret.

They would most certainly be inviting an Israeli pre-emptive attack that all their Sunni neighbors would applaud.

There is no proof that Iran is this psycho.

Beside, they could do a dozen untraceable things to put Israel and its allies into total chaos.

How hard is it to grow an Ebola virus and deliver it anywhere by some of their Hezbollah allies?

Do Iranian figures scream outrageous threats?  So do Americans in and out of government that regularly experience Toby Keith, the singer of inane wave-the-flag and cheer the death of Moslems, moments.

For 100 years we had a benign relationship with Persia/Iran.  It’s time we recognize that our paranoia and oil companies got us into this current mess.



54 Responses to “Sam Fields: Iran’s Beef With USA Understandable”

  1. Alice McGill says:

    Golly gee, I’m feeling all warm and fuzzy towards Iran after reading this article. Let me know, Sam, when the group tour is scheduled. I’ll bring the snacks if you will ride around Iran on my tour bus with me and point out all the best spots for taking pictures.

  2. Count LF Chodkiewicz Chudzikiewicz says:

    Mr. Fields knows nothing about Iranian, previously referred to as Persian history because he has obviously never read the memoirs in English, French,German, let alone Parsi of the major figures of Iranian history since the middle of the 19th century nor anything but left-wing English language accounts of Iranian history. He ignores the fundamental social and political events in Persia, now Iran that had nothing to do with a). America, b). Russia, c). England, d). Germany, e). Turkey, and f). France, each of which b). thru f). had more to do with Iranian history and politics than the U.S. He knows nothing of the Kajar dynasty that was in power, the 1905/1908 conflicts within then Persian Society, and totally is in ignorance that the Shahs, Kajar and Pahlavi, had elected parliaments withonly one party banned, the Russian-controlled Communists. He ignores the robbing and murder of Ba-hais and Jews as it it doesn’t matter, by the present Islamic fundamentalists.
    If Mr. Fields would read history books instead of left-wing ignorant political tracts like “Under Five Shahs”, he would see that the Mullahs have fought every civil government in then Persia and now Iran since the forced conversion of the Persians to Islam and the civil war in Islam over the succession to the Caliphate – the origin of the Sunni / Shia split. The Persians who antedate Islam by several thousand years were notoriously cruel except for the Cyrus Dynasty that was overthrown by Alexander the Great. The Greek successors in Persia of Alexander the Great were overthrown by the Fire Worshipping Dynasties which instituted anti-Semitism, and these dynasties then became Moslem, leading to the political fight between religious officials of the Mosques and the Shahs and their officials.
    As for the Oil Concessions and that history, again, “UNDER FIFE SHAHs” written by a Kajar prince who served in high technical and foreign policy positions in the Pahlavi Regime gives a better account than most American-published books.
    I gather Mr. Fields has worked either in government or in a law firm, and never had a business or experienced how the capitalist system raises money, “capital”, or starting new businesses. There was no capital in most of the oil-producing lands at the end of the 19th century which is why American, English, French, Italian, Russian (until the Russian Revolution) and I believe Japanese firms owned the oil producing facilities. Mr. Fields seems to have no respect for private property, A HUMAN RIGHT! so he ignores the history and financial realities of how you create an industry such as the petroleum industry.
    As for his attacks on US foreign policy and our C.I.A., horse manure squared! Ignorance of facts is the trademark of Mr. Fields’ foreign policy views and opinions. He should stick to US law, I assume he knows about that subject, just as he knows ZERO about FOREIGN POLICY or WORLD HISTORY!

  3. Chaz Stevens, Atheist says:

    Think people.

    What’s the root cause here? Root cause anyone?

    Hint: religion.

    Imagined if we just didn’t do any stupid shit in the name of (your god).

    Imagine, instead of caliphate, we substituted the word masturbate. Instead of killing in the name of the Pope, we’d beat the bishop.

  4. The Professor says:

    Fields once again takes an anti-Israel, anti-US, anti-religion position to assuage the self hate of his Jewish identity.

  5. willie says:

    Obama has put crosshairs on Israel and Fields is a cheerleader.

  6. Count on Sam says:

    Miami New Times (2003):
    Count LF Chodkiewicz Chudzikiewicz or the Count, as he’s known at Miami Beach City Hall, is a small man struggling to balance magnificent obsession with an abiding interest in historical minutiae. Both qualities are satisfied by the Count’s 27-year quest to claim a share of the European fortune of distant German relatives, lost somewhere between the demise of Prussia and the Holocaust.”

  7. Ha Ha Ha says:

    Fields correctly observes that Iranians have some legitimate historical grievances as a result of unethical US foreign policy under certain past administrations.

    It should also be pointed out that Iranian people (regular citizens) don’t really think about these grievances very much and for the most part actually like both American culture and American people.

    The Iranian government seriously dislikes Israel and wants to see it disappear from the Middle East. It spends a lot of money and effort on supporting anti-Israeli militias from Lebanon to Syria to Iraq and beyond. While Iran itself does not wish or plan to attack Israel, it diligently funds and assists armed groups which are based on the idea of removing Israel from the Middle East.

    Iran’s government believes that the Middle East in general and Palestinians in particular have been wrongly forced to pay an unacceptable price for actions they did not even take. Its perspective is that Germany did the crime and somehow the Middle East has been stuck with the punishment. It asks why Germany, which they see as the guilty party, was not forced to give up its own territory instead. The mullahs think that a fair solution to the central Middle East conflict would be to make Germany cede territory to Israel, make Israel give up its existing territory and return that territory to the Palestinians, and have most Israelis peacefully relocate to “New Israel” in Europe. Those Israelis who prefer to remain in the Middle East would be welcome to stay, as long as they were a well-behaved minority group within the Middle Eastern countries that are culturally based upon Islam.

  8. Kirk Pollard says:

    Thomas Freedman agrees with Fields. The Saudi’s, propped up by the Bushs for years, are the real force behind terrorism: “The title greatest ‘purveyors of radical Islam’ does not belong to the Iranians. Not even close. That belongs to our putative ally Saudi Arabia.”

  9. Sam The Sham says:

    The Iranians don’t give a rat’s ass about the Palestinians, they only want the Jewish state of Israel gone. Then, all the “peaceful” and “well behaved” Jews could live under the gentle mercies of Islam and ISIS.

    BTW, the biggest sponsor of terrorism next year will be Barack Obama after he gives the Iranians $150 Billion.

  10. A Realist says:

    I believe Sam Fields is right on target with his comments.

    In fact if we can reverse the lens of condemnation for the Iranians to focus on our own actions then clearly Sam is correct.

    “one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter.” –

    To Count LF Chodkiewicz, please comment on the contents of the argument rather than personal attacks on the writer!!!!!

  11. excompassionate conservative says:

    Mr. Fields, have you ever viewed the Rick Steves travel show on Iran?

  12. Count L F Chodkiewicz Chudzikiewicz says:

    Histrography starts with Herodotus of Athens about 484-428 BC and his theme was the Persian Wars of the Greeks representing civilization against the barbaric tyranny of the Persian Empire.
    Although Jews tend to downplay Herodotus because he passes over the Jewish Kingdoms of Israel and Judea because he is a Greek writing about their Wars against the Persians, who at the time were the overlords of the conquerored Kingdoms of Israel and Judea.

    Unlike the Greeks, and later the Romans, Egyptian history was written until Alexander the Great’s conquest and the ensuing rule of the Ptolemies by Priests, with court records kept by them as well as the court. During the reign of Pharaoh Amenophis IV, 1379-1362 BC, the famous sun god worshipping Akhenaten we find Egyptian diplomatic records about the Jews at El-Amarna. There are also records of Pharaoh Ramesses II, about 1304-1237 BC. These records show existing Jewish communities in Israel, then called Caanan, the predecessor name of the Holy Land before the Roman Palestine.
    In 1232 BC the Egyptian Pharaoh Merneptah conquerored the Jewss or Hebrews as the Jews were called then starting with the Egyptians, who had organized settlements.
    About 1020 BC the last of the Judges, Samuel, crowned Saul the first King of Israel. His family was succeeded by that of David, and the entire story is told in the Old Testament, although our version of the Old Testament except for bits and pieces found in the Dead Sea Scrolls, comes from the Koine (Alexandrine Jewish dialect Greek) Greek Septuagine translation made by 70 or 72 or 74 Jewish scribes from Aramaic and Hebrew into Greek for the Great Library of Alexandria for King Ptolemy I Soter, reigned 305 – 283 BC who conqueored Caanan in 301 and found the Temple of the Muses, with its Great Library, Zoo, and scientific schools, the “Museum”.
    Anyone can easily research all this on the internet or simply buy a used copy of William L. Langer’s AN ENCYCLOPLED OF WORLD HISTORY, a continuation of the German Dr. Karl Ploetz’s systematic organization of world history, his AUSZUG AUS DER ALTEN, MITTLEREN, UND NEUEREN GESCHICHTE first available in English in 1883.
    All the “current” nonsenee the Mullahs attacks on Israel have any basis of fact is refuted by thousands of years of Persian invasions of the lands west of Persia, well before Islam came into existence. Jewish populations and states in Israel have been attacked, robbed, and slaughtered by Persians going back nearly 4,000 years.
    The trouble with the Jew haters or self-hating Jews that blog is that THEY WRITE MORE THAN THEY READ! A violation of the cardinal rule of writing, factual or creative, YOU READ MORE THAN YOU WRITE OR YOU ARE USELESS TO YOURSELF AND OTHERS

  13. Charlotte Greenbarg says:

    Yes, let’s rationalize Iran’s positions, “Death to America” Death to Israel” They don’t want to see any Jew alive anywhere in the world. Period. Don’t delude yourselves.

    Remember what happened to the German Jews who thought they were Germans first and Jews second and the country was civilized?

    The present disaster in the Middle East is purely from the outrageous actions and non-actions of this administration. We still have troops in many past war zones, but leaving troops in Iraq wasn’t appropriate?

    The area has always been a tightrope walk, but now that they’ve cut the rope all hell is going to break loose.

  14. Ha Ha Ha says:

    @13 – Charlotte, would you mind explaining exactly how it is that “According to the most recent Iranian census, the Jewish population of Iran is 8,756” and “Jews have had a continuous presence in Iran since the time of Cyrus the Great of the Achaemenid Empire” if, as you claim, Iran’s leaders “don’t want to see any Jew alive anywhere in the world”?

    As for troops in Iraq, the problem is not that US troops were withdrawn from Iraq – the problem is that it was done very badly. The Obama administration foolishly believed (and still foolishly believes) that Iraq can remain as a united country under a democratically elected government. This “One Iraq” policy is probably the single best example of monumental stupidity within the Obama administration (although there is certainly no shortage of other examples – take a look at all the “Middle Man” cartoons by Tom Tomorrow!). The failed “One Iraq” policy should be immediately abandoned and replaced with a policy of directly and generously arming the Kurdish Regional Government (the only Iraqi fighting force that has repeatedly proven itself to be militarily effective against ISIS) and doing everything possible to advance and support the Kurdistan Region’s pending Declaration of Independence. This should be done with the ultimate goal of helping the Erbil government’s military forces meet NATO standards, with the long-term goal of accepting KRG as a full member of the NATO military alliance.

    Iran’s Persian culture has its flaws (excessive entanglement of church & state, etc.) but it is also a rich culture full of great treasures, including the late great Iranian-British singer Freddie Mercury, whose brilliant leadership of the band “Queen” still has Americans chanting “We will, we will ROCK YOU!!!”

  15. Ha Ha Ha says:

    Freddie Mercury brought rock music to Iran too…

    BBC News – Queen album brings rock to Iran

    Rock band Queen, fronted by gay icon Freddie Mercury, has become the first rock act to receive an official seal of approval in Iran. Western music is strictly censored in the Islamic republic, where homosexuality is considered a crime. But an album of Queen’s greatest hits was released in Iran on Monday.

    Mercury, who died in 1991, was proud of his Iranian ancestry, and illegal bootleg albums and singles made Queen one of the most popular bands in Iran… Akbar Safari, a salesman at a Tehran book and record store, said the album was already selling very well. “It is the first rock album to hit the market legally and people are surprised and pleased to see it has the lyrics, not just the music,” he said …

  16. Let's Get Real says:

    Before we get carried away, let’s remember Israel has killed more American sailors and stolen more American defense secrets than Iran. And at this moment, we are witness to a brazen attempt by Israel, its agents and its stooges to subvert the American political process. But as of now, that unfriendly and totally unprecedented action appears to have failed.

  17. Charlotte Greenbarg says:

    HaHaHa you take anything Iran claims as fact? Please.

    Let’s Get Real, besides your obvious vitriol against Israel, what sources can you point to back up your attack? Stolen more defense secrets than Iran? Killed more American sailors than Iran? That would be laughable if it weren’t so hateful and destructive.

  18. Let's Get Real says:

    Ms. Greenbarg:

    I have no vitriol to dispense against anyone. Israel is a foreign country with its own interests, and like all foreign countries, does not always act in the best interest of the United States. As for authoritative material documenting, say, the extent of Israel’s extensive and ongoing industrial spying against American interests, you can easily find it on the Internet.

  19. Count LF Chodkiewicz Chudzikiewicz says:

    America has only two major stains – its treatment of Blacks n Indians and the detention of Japanese during World War Ii which being a lesser issue. Israel has to deal with constant oppression of Jews world wide as the sole Jewish Homeland which makes for a mental outlook we Americans can’t comprehend as we have never experienced except Blacks Indians n Japanese. Also Israels deplorable spying on the US to the best of my knowledge is limited to military n foreign affairs NOT industrial spying as the Chinese Russians North Koreans have n are doing. Let’s be clear Israels spying is limited to issues of their survival. Solely.

  20. Ha Ha Ha says:

    Foundation for the Advancement of Sephardic Studies and Culture
    Serving the Sephardic Community for Nearly 40 Years

    IRAN: Life of Jews Living in Iran
    Iran remains home to Jewish enclave.

    TEHRAN – The Jewish women in the back rows of the synagogue wear long garments in the traditional Iranian style, but instead of chadors, their heads are covered with cheerful, flowered scarves. The boys in their skullcaps, with Hebrew prayer books tucked under their arms, scamper down the aisles to grab the best spots near the lush, turquoise Persian carpet of the altar. This is Friday night, Shabbat – Iranian style, and the synagogue in an affluent neighborhood of North Tehran is filled to capacity with more than 400 worshipers.

    It is one of the many paradoxes of the Islamic Republic of Iran that this most virulent anti-Israeli country supports by far the largest Jewish population of any Muslim country.

    While Jewish communities in Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Egypt, Morocco and Algeria have all but vanished, Iran is home to 25,000 – some here say 35,000 – Jews. The Jewish population is less than half the number that lived here before the Islamic revolution of 1979. But the Jews have tried to compensate for their diminishing numbers by adopting a new religious fervor.

    ”The funny thing is that before the Islamic revolution, you would see maybe 20 old men in the synagogue,” whispers Nahit Eliyason, 48, as she climbs over four other women to find one of the few vacant seats. ”Now the place is full. You can barely find a seat.” Parvis Yashaya, a film producer who heads Tehran’s Jewish community, adds: ”We are smaller, but we are stronger in some ways.”

    Tehran has 11 functioning synagogues, many of them with Hebrew schools. It has two kosher restaurants, and a Jewish hospital, an old-age home and a cemetery. There is a Jewish representative in the Iranian parliament. There is a Jewish library with 20,000 titles, its reading room decorated with a photograph of the Ayatollah Khomeini….

    Khomeini met with the Jewish community upon his return from exile in Paris and issued a ”fatwa” decreeing that the Jews were to be protected. Similar edicts also protect Iran’s tiny Christian minority. …

  21. Chaz Stevens, MAOS says:

    Made in Israel…

    Or not.

    The European Union’s highest court ruled in 2010 that SodaStream was not entitled to claim a “Made in Israel” exemption from EU customs payments for products manufactured in the West Bank because Israeli settlements in occupied Palestinian territory are outside the territorial scope of the EC-Israel Agreement.

  22. Charlotte Greenbarg says:

    “Iranian Jews say they socialize far less with Muslims now than before the revolution. As a whole, they occupy their own separate space within the rigid confines of the Islamic republic, a protected yet precarious niche. ”

    Read between the lines.

  23. Sam The Sham says:

    @Ha Ha Ha

    Yes, Jewish life in Iran is just like paradise on Earth. I don’t know when your article was written or what its sources are but some other sources say that the present Jewish population of Iran is closer to 8700 not 15,000. And that number is down from over 100,000 before the Islamic Revolution in 1979. A loss of over 90% of the population. It seems like everyone who wanted to get out or were able to get out did so. Jews in Iran are considered “Dhimmis”, or a protected class under the Koran. They are protected because they pay a huge yearly fee, call a jizyah, which amounts to somewhere between 20% and 50% of their net worth. (If you know the exact fee, let us all know.) Iran’s Koranic law says if you are not Muslim, you must pay a jizyah or convert or be executed. They are discriminated against, do not have complete freedom of religion and their Jewish books are edited or banned. They can only be represented by a single seat in the Iran legislature. Their freedom of movement in and out of the country is restricted. Other than that, life is great.

  24. Count LF Chodkiewicz Chudzikiewicz says:

    Heaven preserve us from people who find a minor scholarly insignicant group with websites and no recognized scholars no significant support and sloppy if not limited knowledge of specialized studies. If Mr Ha Ha Ha. Went to the Center for Jewish History including its internationally renown Sephardic Component he’d be laughed out of the lecture
    Halls repeating his nonsense.! Iran hangs Jewiskh students and like Syria and usually
    Yemen prohibits Jews from emigrating.As for repeating this in American Iranian synagogues in California or on Long Island or
    In Rio or Sao Paulo don’t ask!

  25. Ha Ha Ha says:

    @22 – Reading between the lines, I see that Ms. Greenbarg is finally admitting that her prior claim that Iran’s leaders “don’t want to see any Jew alive anywhere in the world” has been proven false.

    @23 – Sham, are you still here? I thought you’d be done by now with your plans to move away from Broward County which you declared here at BB many months ago… anyway, I’ve already shown that Ms. Greenbarg’s attempt to ascribe genocidal intent to the Iranian government is entirely false. Although Iran (like pretty much every other country in the world) does not do a perfect job of eliminating discrimination against minorities, the FASSC article points out that the environment is good enough to sustain Iran’s Jewish community:

    Jewish women, like Muslim women, are required by law to keep their heads covered, although most eschew the chador for a simple scarf. But Jews, unlike Muslims, can keep small flasks of home-brewed wine or arrack to drink within the privacy of their homes – in theory, for religious purposes. Some Hebrew schools are coed, and men and women dance with each other at weddings, practices strictly forbidden for Muslims.

    ”Sometimes I think they are kinder to the Jews than they are to themselves. … If we are gathered in a house, and the family is having a ceremony with wine or the music is playing too loud, if they find out we are Jews, they don’t bother us so much,” Eliyason said.

    ”Everywhere in the world there are people who don’t like Jews. In England, they draw swastikas on Jewish graves. I don’t think that Iran is more dangerous for Jews than other places.” …

    Jewish leaders say their community has far stronger roots in Iran than other Middle East Jewish communities, which were virtually eradicated by massive immigration to Israel in the 1940s and 1950s. Esther, the biblical Jewish queen who saved her people from persecution in the fifth century B.C., is reputed to be buried in Hamadan, in western Iran. The grave of the Old Testament prophet Daniel lies in southwestern Iran.

    ”We are different from the Jews of the diaspora. You see the name ‘Persia’ in the Old Testament almost as often as the name ‘Israel.’ The Iranian Jews are very much part of Iran,” said Gad Naim, 60, who runs the old-age home in Tehran.

    @24 – Count, perhaps you should familiarize yourself with these books from the Center for Jewish History’s collection:

    Comprehensive history of the Jews of Iran : the outset of the diaspora (1999)

    Esther’s children : a portrait of Iranian Jews (2002)

    The Jews of Iran in the nineteenth century : aspects of history, community, and culture (2009)

    Light and shadows : the story of Iranian Jews (2012)

  26. Counr LF Chodkiewicz Chudzikiewicz says:

    As any person who can use Google or any search engine or source knows my writings – PUBLISHED and unpublished along with donated art jewelry paintings AND BOOKS and like photographs are in the Archives Library and Art Collection in the Center for Jewish History. For someone Who Will Not Identify Themselves to think some with Established PUBLISHED and EXHIBITED work
    in three continents since 1958 shows what ignorant cowardly anti-semities too many old
    Farts from both the Left n Right have become. .

  27. Charlotte Greenbarg says:

    I don’t admit to making any false claim, HaHaHa.

    Re-read the precarious part. Do you really think anyone interviewed in Iran would say anything negative about the government’s treatment?

    You are simply either part of those who defend Iran no matter what or are unable to reason given the statements from Iran’s government.

    Either way, that means you and people like you who spread such glowing words about Iran are equal dangers to the civilized world.

  28. Peter McIntosh says:

    I am always amazed with the arrogance of Charlotte Greenbarg.

    If any one dares to have an opinion that does not align with her own then, the personal attacks begin flowing.

    It would be nice to respectfully disagree with an opinion based on facts rather than pre-determined biased positions.

  29. Peter McIntosh says:

    Switch the camera and take a selfie Ms. Greenbarg

    “You are simply either part of those who defend Israel no matter what or are unable to reason given the statements from Israel’s government.”

    “Either way, that means you and people like you who spread such glowing words about Israel are equal dangers to the civilized world.”

  30. Count LF Chodkiewicz Chudzikiewicz says:

    l. Mr. Fields wrote about IRAN NOT ISRAEL or JEWS, but because IRAN drove nearly all its 100,000 Jews out, murdering some, robbing ALL, American Jews like myself objected on the grounds the Mullahs not just since 1979, but going back centuries, have oppressed religious minorities, not just the Jews.
    2. Mr. McIntosh now attacks Miss Greenbarg apparently for pointing out Iran (contrary to the faux arguments of Mr. Ha Ha Ha that I know first hand are rubbish) for supporting Israel, WHICH IS NOT THE SUBJECT OF THE PIECE WE ARE SUPPOSEDLY TO BE DISCUSSING!

  31. Charlotte Greenbarg says:


    Personal attacks would be calling people like you and HaHaHa ignoramuses, agents of the lunatics on the left, vicious and liars, arrogant, or cowards for not blogging with their real name, for example. Really over the top.

    Calling people who agree with terrorist governments a danger to the civilized world isn’t a personal attack. It’s an attack on their statements and actions.

    Your opinions that Israel is a danger to the civilized world tell the story clearly.

    Well put, Count Etc. 🙂

  32. Peter McIntosh says:

    CG. Going back to the original comments from Sam Fields piece

    “one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter.”

    My #29 Comment was just a reversal of your # 27 comments with only the perspective changed. Iran vs Israel.

    You have missed the point!!!!!

  33. Count LF Chodkiewicz Chudzikiewicz Chudzikiewicz says:

    In the aftermath of the Spanish Inquisition of the 15th century, the St Bartholem Night Massacres and destruction of Rome in the 16th century followed by the massive destruction of the Thirty Years War in Germany. The world powers agreed to the Peace of Westphalia and the Treaty of Muenster that laid down the origins of Modern International Law. The International Court of Justice created thru the work of Russian ennobled Jewish railroad magnate Jean or Ivan or Jan due Bloch n the Nuremberg Tribunal n Japanese War Crimes Trials all spring from these Treaties and the works the Dutch Hugo Grotius.
    NO one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter is IN OPPOSITION to ALL INTERNATIONAL and all RELIGIOUS FAITHS TODAY except the Mullahs in North Africa n Asia! Terrorism is a well defined crime. Attacking and murdering non combatants or soldiers or bombing civilian targets like Issues or All Queda does is terrorism! Israel attacking missle sites in Gaza Syria or Iran is legal self-defense in international law

  34. SAM FIELDS says:

    The ultimate parsing of “one man’s terrorist is a another man’s freedom fighter” comes from Bibi Netanyahu who would be forced to defend Hamas operatives as freedom fighters for blowing up the Knesset…as long as they phoned in a bomb warning five minutes before it went off.

    He applied the “telephone standard” to defend the notion that Menachem Begin was “not” a terrorist for blowing up the King David Hotel in 1947 and killing 90 men, women and children.

    In the law this is known as a “goose/gander” analysis.

  35. Charlotte Greenbarg says:

    PM: I missed nothing. Your intention is clear.

    That existential dreck causes people to be slaughtered in the name of religion.

  36. Chaz Stevens, MAOS says:

    According to the definition of terrorism adopted by the FBI, George Washington was a terrorist. Indeed, so were Jefferson, Franklin, Adams and all the signatories to the Declaration of Independence. Moreover, all Confederate soldiers, statesmen, and sympathizers were terrorists.

  37. Charlotte Greenbarg says:

    Chaz, I don’t buy it. Sounds good, but not applicable.

  38. Charlotte Greenbarg says:

    Yes, Begun was a terrorist, even if he did try to warn ahead.

    Innocent bystanders were killed.

    Terrorists also try to kill as miserably as possible to terrorize. Deliberately. That’s why they’re called terrorists.

    When Hamas calls in to warn about a bomb we can discuss it, Sam. Until then…

  39. Chaz Stevens, MAOS says:

    When you blend church and state, you end up with an hybrid political system.

    That’s what Islam is today.

    And that’s why, in my own demented way, I fight tooth and nail for the separation of church and state.

  40. Commissioner Angelo Castillo says:


    With respect, you’re mistaken on the question of church and state.

    Whatever Islam may be to some elsewhere, that discussion has nothing whatsoever to do with the American separation of church and state doctrine.

    For starters Islam cannot be blamed for the barbaric behavior, indeed, the neanderthal views, terrorism and flying planes into buildings. It matters not what the Koran says. Sentences can be found in the Old Testament that require stonings, slavery, killings, etc. We do not follow those things as a nation. It is people that choose their behavior not religions.

    Horrible people do terrorism and they try to salve their conscience by saying it’s Islam. Fools fall for their trick but I will not.

    I will continue to say that they are misusing Islam because that is the truth. I will say they are criminals and un-Godly. I will not cloak them with even a thread of religious protection. And it’s damned near crazy to even entertain that thouhght.

    Look — Christians, Muslims and Jews are all sons and daughters of Abraham. Whose one God we all share. Three related faiths, variations on a common theme. Which theme? The one, same exact God of Abraham. So, why would we drape any of these murdering bastards with the “protection” of the same God most of us worship?

    Makes no sense at all.

    Much more likely that our one God is tremendously displeased by any act of terrorist savagery or the continuing war and carnage that we find ourselves in today. Most perversely of all, in God’s name.

    Good Muslims, Jews and Christians get along. Not because they like one another though we hope that happens. But because they love God more.

    They support one another, they abhor violence, they reject terrorist acts and they co-exist in peace. They denounce the perversion of their faiths by those who would kill in the name of our God — the greatest of all sins, the worst possible blasphemy there could be. That’s the first point.

    Secondly, our system of government church and state is separated to eliminate the state from favoring any one faith. This is done to give our people the freedom to choose live as they see fit so long as they obey the laws.

    Church and state separation is NOT an excuse for government to ignore religions. It is a poor reason to deny working with them to advance the legitimate interests of government where those align with religions. It is not an invitation to religions to disrespect the laws of our nation. Freedom of religion does not excuse disobeyong our laws. And it absolutely does not mean that to be a true American we must reject religion.

    To be an American is to accept the premise that we are a nation of many very diverse people, with different beliefs, lifestyles, nations of origin, religions or none at all — all willing to co-exist and form the binds that create a sense of nation.

    Americanism is not a melting pot. That was a horribly inaccurate image from the last century. We do not melt together in America and never have. We are decidedly not an unrecognizable pot of liquified molten metals. America is more like a stew in which individually identifyable elements combine to produce a common flavor.

    America has a common taste yet our inherent ingredients are identifyably different. Yet we willingly combine to form a nation. That is America. Out of many, one — e pluribus unim. As our currency says.

    Government is free to acknowledge and even encourage religious groups without showing any preference one over any other. Separation of church and state does not require that our nation be atheist, as atheism is a form of religion. It simply requires that we establish no official religion and offer to each of them the same rights.

    We may not disguise the fight of some to erradicate religion with the concept of separation of church and state. They could not be further apart.


  41. Ha Ha Ha says:

    @40 – Angelo, I’m pretty sure Chaz (@39) meant to say “ISIS” rather than “Islam”. Chaz is a separationist, just like you (and like me). I don’t see anyone here who is trying to eradicate either religion in general or any specific religion in particular.

    As for your point about “Good Muslims”, I’ll just strengthen it a bit by pointing to the Kurdish Regional Government (KRG) in general, and President Massoud Barzani in particular, as splendid examples of exactly what you’re talking about. More information here:

    The KRG’s Peshmerga forces have been the only “boots on the ground” capable of defeating ISIS (rather than just running away and surrendering its American-made weapons to ISIS as the Iraqi military has repeatedly done). In addition, the KRG has provided both military defense for people of all faiths (Yazidis, Christians, etc.) and protective shelter for hundreds of thousands of refugees of all faiths fleeing from the ISIS terrorists.

    The Kurdish people have been and continue to be grossly abused by the Iraqi government. They strongly favor independence, and a referendum will soon be held.

    The US should strongly support the KRG as it declares independence, and directly provide the KRG with the weapons, training, and humanitarian aid it needs to both defeat ISIS and bring its Peshmerga forces up to NATO standards. And the US should do everything possible to welcome the KRG as the next Muslim-majority member of the NATO military alliance. KRG’s neighbor Turkey was the first such NATO member.

  42. SAM FIELDS says:


    So Islam has nothing to do with Isis, Boko Haram, etc.?

    That should come as a real surprise to those folks. It should come as a surprise to students attending Wahabi schools in Saudia Arabia. I could go on.

    The texts of all ideologies—secular or supernatural—invariably have language to support or reject just about any kind of behavior.

    In 1994 Baruch Goldstein murdered 29 Muslims on the West Bank. To this day he is venerated in word and song by some Orthodox Jews who refer to him as “holier than all the martyrs of the Holocaust.”

    I suppose you are going to tell me they are not Jews? If so, do they get a “reverse bris”?

    And the Catholic clergy who welcomed Hitler weren’t Catholics.

    By the way, mass murderer Joe Stalin was not a Marxist.

    All this kind of thinking does is absolve other members of the group from challenging the bad actors.

  43. Zowie says:

    Let’s keep the priests, ministers and rabbis at arm’s length from our politics, and write and execute laws that apply fully and fairly to all whatever their beliefs(or lack thereof).
    If the clergy and the churches and other business entities they head want to get involved in politics, then let’s tax them like everybody else.

  44. Let's Get Real says:

    I belatedly saw the post above that expresses the belief, or hope, that Israel imposes limits upon itself in its wide-ranging and ongoing espionage operations against the United States.
    As Exhibit A to the contrary, I offer the following article from Newsweek.

    Whatever happened to honor among thieves? When the National Security Agency was caught eavesdropping on German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s cell phone, it was considered a rude way to treat a friend. Now U.S. intelligence officials are saying—albeit very quietly, behind closed doors on Capitol Hill—that our Israeli “friends” have gone too far with their spying operations here.
    According to classified briefings on legislation that would lower visa restrictions on Israeli citizens, Jerusalem’s efforts to steal U.S. secrets under the cover of trade missions and joint defense technology contracts have “crossed red lines.”
    Israel’s espionage activities in America are unrivaled and unseemly, counterspies have told members of the House Judiciary and Foreign Affairs committees, going far beyond activities by other close allies, such as Germany, France, the U.K. and Japan. A congressional staffer familiar with a briefing last January called the testimony “very sobering…alarming…even terrifying.” Another staffer called it “damaging.”
    The Jewish state’s primary target: America’s industrial and technical secrets.
    “No other country close to the United States continues to cross the line on espionage like the Israelis do,” said a former congressional staffer who attended another classified briefing in late 2013, one of several in recent months given by officials from the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), the State Department, the FBI and the National Counterintelligence Directorate.
    The intelligence agencies didn’t go into specifics, the former aide said, but cited “industrial espionage—folks coming over here on trade missions or with Israeli companies working in collaboration with American companies, [or] intelligence operatives being run directly by the government, which I assume meant out of the [Israeli] Embassy.”
    An Israeli Embassy spokesman flatly denied the charges Tuesday after initially declining to comment. Aaron Sagui told Newsweek “Israel doesn’t conduct espionage operations in the United States, period. We condemn the fact that such outrageous, false allegations are being directed against Israel.” Representatives of two U.S. intelligence agencies, while acknowledging problems with Israeli spies, would not discuss classified testimony for the record. The FBI would neither confirm nor deny it briefed Congress. A State Department representative would say only that staff in its Consular and Israel Palestinian Affairs offices briefed members of Congress on visa reciprocity issues.
    Of course, the U.S. spies on Israel, too. “It was the last place you wanted to go on vacation,” a former top CIA operative told Newsweek, because of heavy-handed Israeli surveillance. But the level of Israeli espionage here now has rankled U.S. counterspies.
    “I don’t think anyone was surprised by these revelations,” the former aide said. “But when you step back and hear…that there are no other countries taking advantage of our security relationship the way the Israelis are for espionage purposes, it is quite shocking. I mean, it shouldn’t be lost on anyone that after all the hand-wringing over [Jonathan] Pollard, it’s still going on.”
    Israel and pro-Israel groups in America have long lobbied U.S. administrations to free Pollard, a former U.S. naval intelligence analyst serving a life sentence since 1987 for stealing tens of thousands of secrets for Israel. (U.S. counterintelligence officials suspect that Israel traded some of the Cold War-era information to Moscow in exchange for the emigration of Russian Jews.) After denying for over a decade that Pollard was its paid agent, Israel apologized and promised not to spy on U.S. soil again. Since then, more Israeli spies have been arrested and convicted by U.S. courts.
    I.C. Smith, a former top FBI counterintelligence specialist during the Pollard affair, tells Newsweek, “In the early 1980s, dealing with the Israelis was, for those assigned that area, extremely frustrating. The Israelis were supremely confident that they had the clout, especially on the Hill, to basically get [away] with just about anything. This was the time of the Criteria Country List—later changed to the National Security Threat List—and I found it incredible that Taiwan and Vietnam, for instance, were on [it], when neither country had conducted activities that remotely approached the Pollard case, and neither had a history of, or a comparable capability to conduct, such activities.”
    While all this was going on, Israel was lobbying hard to be put on the short list of countries (38 today) whose citizens don’t need visas to visit here.
    Until recently, the major sticking point was the Jewish state’s discriminatory and sometimes harsh treatment of Arab-Americans and U.S. Palestinians seeking to enter Israel. It has also failed to meet other requirements for the program, such as promptly and regularly reporting lost and stolen passports, officials say—a problem all the more pressing since Iranians were found to have boarded the missing Malaysia Airlines flight with stolen passports.
    “But this is the first time congressional aides have indicated that intelligence and national security concerns also are considerations in weighing Israel’s admission into the visa waiver program,” Jonathan Broder, the foreign and defense editor for CQ Roll Call, a Capitol Hill news site, wrote last month. He quoted a senior House aide as saying, “The U.S. intelligence community is concerned that adding Israel to the visa waiver program would make it easier for Israeli spies to enter the country.”
    The Israelis “thought they could just snap their fingers” and get friends in Congress to legislate visa changes, a Hill aide said, instead of going through the required hoops with DHS. But facing resistance from U.S. intelligence, Israel recently signaled it’s willing to work with DHS, both Israeli and U.S. officials say. “Israel is interested in entering into the visa waiver program and is taking concrete steps to meet its conditions,” Israeli Embassy spokesman Aaron Sagui told Newsweek. “Most recently, the U.S. and Israel decided to establish a working group to advance the process,” Sagui added, saying that “Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs Zeev Elkin will head the Israeli delegation.” He refused to say when the Elkin delegation was coming.
    Congressional aides snorted at the announcement. “The Israelis haven’t done s**t to get themselves into the visa waiver program,” the former congressional aide said, echoing the views of two other House staffers working on the issue. “I mean, if the Israelis got themselves into this visa waiver program and if we were able to address this [intelligence community] concern—great, they’re a close ally, there are strong economic and cultural links between the two countries, it would be wonderful if more Israelis could come over here without visas. I’m sure it would spur investment and tourist dollars in our economy and so on and so forth. But what I find really funny is they haven’t done s**t to get into the program. They think that their friends in Congress can get them in, and that’s not the case. Congress can lower one or two of the barriers, but they can’t just legislate the Israelis in.”
    The path to visa waivers runs through DHS and can take years to navigate. For Chile, it was three years, a government official said on a not-for-attribution basis; for Taiwan, “several.” Requirements include “enhanced law enforcement and security-related data sharing with the United States; timely reporting of lost and stolen passports; and the maintenance of high counterterrorism, law enforcement, border control, aviation and document security standards,” a DHS statement said.
    Israel is not even close to meeting those standards, a congressional aide said. “You’ve got to have machine-readable passports in place—the e-passports with a data chip in them. The Israelis have only just started to issue them to diplomats and senior officials and so forth, and that probably won’t be rolled out to the rest of their population for another 10 years.”
    But U.S. counterspies will get the final word. And since Israel is as likely to stop spying here as it is to give up matzo for Passover, the visa barriers are likely to stay up.
    As Paul Pillar, the CIA’s former national intelligence officer for the Near East and South Asia, told Newsweek, old habits are hard to break: Zionists were dispatching spies to America before there even was an Israel, to gather money and materials for the cause and later the fledgling state. Key components for Israel’s nuclear bombs were clandestinely obtained here. “They’ve found creative and inventive ways,” Pillar said, to get what they want.
    “If we give them free rein to send people over here, how are we going to stop that?” the former congressional aide asked. “They’re incredibly aggressive. They’re aggressive in all aspects of their relationship with the United States. Why would their intelligence relationship with us be any different?”

    Jeff Stein writes SpyTalk for Newsweek from Washington, D.C.

  45. Chaz Stevens, MAOS says:

    No, I meant Islam.

  46. Commissioner Angelo Castillo says:


    No, I do not believe that any organization claiming to worship the God of Abraham can possibly reconcile their religion with the killing of innocent people. I deny their right to rationally say their religion expects this of them. Or that God is in any way well served through those killings.

    If ISIS claims that they are a devout Muslim organization while embracing terrorism and murder, that’s not Islam. That’s just terrorism. We can’t blame Islam for that. We must blame them.

    I refuse to fall into the not so clever trap of cloaking terrorists with even one thread of religious cover to disguise their true motive, which has nothing to do with God but with murder.

    People who kill in the name of God are simply using God to help excuse and justify their horrible, murderous ways.

    Now, you can provide them with the religious cover that they need to salve what’s left of their warped conscience. You can do that for them if you want.

    I won’t.

    I’ll just call them terrorists. Godless ones at that. I choose to see them for what they are.


  47. Charlotte Greenbarg says:

    SpyTalk sounds like a beltway gossip version of a bad soap opera. Lots of people who really don’t like Israel and would prefer it to go away.

    With friends like those in our lovely State Dept. Israel just chalks them up to the usual enemies.

    Countries spy on one another. Always have always will.

  48. Ha Ha Ha says:

    Chaz, it’s not reasonable to assume that Islam implies a lack of separation between church and state. Both Turkey and the Kurdish Regional Government are clear counterexamples to that proposition.

  49. Let's Get Real says:

    With friends like those in our lovely State Dept. Israel just chalks them up to the usual enemies.

    This is hardly a refutation. Am I to conclude that though you are an U.S. citizen, you endorse the efforts of foreign spies actively working against American interests? And do you support just one country’s right to do that, or several?

  50. Charlotte Greenbarg says:

    LGR: Please don’t spout those ridiculous questions in lieu of actually discussing the State Dept.’s long history of anti-Israel actions.

    You’re quite transparent.

  51. Let's Get Real says:

    Ms. Greenbarg:
    So you’re actually in favor of allowing foreign countries to spy on us? Which country, or countries, do you think should be allowed to do this? As for being transparent, if by that you mean my sole allegiance is to the United States, I’m as transparent
    as crystal.

  52. Charlotte Greenbarg says:

    LGR: Aha, the new substitute for the old blood libel…questioning allegiance to the U.S. if someone supports the right of Israel to exist.

    As well as putting words in someone’s mouth when your real intent is exposed. Observing that countries spying on one another is a reality is not condoning it.

    Trying to distract from what you really are saying won’t work.


    The United States spies on all our allies, including listening to conversations of world leaders. This was proven by the Edward Snowdon data breach.

    If backing Israel somehow makes ones patriotism suspect, then every Republican candidate on stage at last night’s debate are guilty. Every one who discussed the Middle East fell over themselves to support Israel.

  53. Count LF Chodkiewicz Chudzikiewicz says:

    Miss Greenberg has hit the nail on the head. Jeff Stein has an undistinquished record of working mostly for non-entities n has landed on a failing magazine whose major achievement was verifying, buying, n publishing the totally bogus “Hitler Diaries”.Who is Let’s Get Real going to quote next? The Kardasians?

  54. SAM FIELDS says:

    Things your god of Abraham did:

    1. Regularly murdered or had his minions murder innocent adults and children. E.g.

    2. In the Passover story that loving God of Abraham wacks the eldest males in every Egyptian household. Statistically, many of them were newborns.

    3. Tells the Jews to kill and enslave the folks in Jericho.

    4. Tells the Jews to commit genocide on, among others, the Hivites, Midianites, non-virgin women captured in war, etc.,etc

    5. Yahweh is a big fan of slavery

    6. Calls for the murder of people caught eating a lobster or a ham sandwich.

    7. Same for having sex when the women is having her period.
    8. I can’t begin to count the ways that the Bible and the Koran make me “dead man walking”.

    9. The New Testament makes all that look like child’s play. Check of the Book of Revelation where, beginning with the Jews, Jesus tortures and murders everyone except a few select.

    10. The truth is that you don’t know or believe what the Bible says. You are just convinced the Bible says what you believe.

    11. Apparently Angelo Castillo has a monopoly on the definition of god so he can conclude that all terrorists are atheists. (‘Godless’ your word.)

    It just confirms that you are a bigot with a Bible…a book that you have not even bothered to read.

    Sam, a proud atheist, Fields